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Fred Zellweger
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iChat Guitar Lessons new
      #1109 - 08/16/04 10:32 AM Attachment (424 downloads)

I found an intersting article:

Way back when Apple announced iChat AV and the iSight, Kevin had the idea of using them to give guitar lessons online, potentially over significant distances. After talking about it for ages (my fault!), we finally got around to giving it a try last Sunday, and I'm pleased to report that it worked remarkably well. Comfortably situated at home in San Mateo, California, I enjoyed an hour and a half of expert instruction from a member of the Seattle Guitar Quartet who was holed up in his own studio, over 800 miles away.

The technical challenges I expected to encounter — trouble seeing fingering and notation clearly, upstream bandwidth limits of our DSL/cable connections, sound latency, difficulty finding workable voice and instrument audio levels — were all there to some extent, but were much less acute and troublesome than I had been prepared to have to deal with. Certainly what problems do exist seem to be surmountable. You get used to thinking about whether what you're doing needs to be clearly visible, and adjusting your position relative to the camera when necessary. Jamming is a bit of a challenge with about a half-second delay in each direction, but the delay doesn't seem to be a problem for the alternating back-and-forth playing that makes up most of a lesson. Very solid audio quality helped make up for the network-limited (and on my end CPU-limited) video feed. It will be interesting to see how things improve in the latter department, with the new and reportedly more bandwidth-efficient H.264/AVC codec that's been announced for Tiger. (A further interesting possibility that Tiger iChat may facilitate: group lessons via multi-way video chat!)

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hptschuppAdministrator
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Reged: 07/03/03
Posts: 666
Loc: Clearwater, FL
Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: ]
      #1111 - 08/16/04 04:25 PM

Excellent article Fred. Do you know where it's coming from. I'd like to get in contact with them.

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Fred Zellweger
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Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: hptschupp]
      #1114 - 08/17/04 10:33 AM

Unfortunately I don't know the guitar teacher. I got the message by troy_stephens@mac.com

Maybe you can contact Troy Stepens and find out more. I think he works for a MAC project.


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hptschuppAdministrator
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Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: ]
      #1127 - 08/19/04 07:56 AM

Thanks for the hint Fred. I contacted Troy Stephens by e-mail and he responded back to me this morning:

The Guitar Teacher's Name is: Kevin Callahan

His web site is: http://www.kevincallahan.org/teaching.html

His iChat screen name is: kcall@mac.com

I hope we can get in touch with Kevin and exchange some information about "Music lessons via iChat".


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Fred Zellweger
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Re: iChat Guitar Lessons [Re: hptschupp]
      #1130 - 08/19/04 02:39 PM

Hanspeter,

I saw that you posted a message at: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/3795/comments

That's great. All iChat musicians should unite and exchange their experiences. I hope to be in the group soon.

Fred


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KevinC
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Reged: 08/21/04
Posts: 1
Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: hptschupp]
      #1136 - 08/21/04 06:46 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the hint Fred. I contacted Troy Stephens by e-mail and he responded back to me this morning:

The Guitar Teacher's Name is: Kevin Callahan

His web site is: http://www.kevincallahan.org/teaching.html

His iChat screen name is: kcall@mac.com

I hope we can get in touch with Kevin and exchange some information about "Music lessons via iChat".




Well, Troy and I just finished another guitar lesson via iChatAV and it went very well. We were able to cover technique, harmony and do some improvising. Considering Troy was on an iBook G3 (900mhz), the quality was still good enough to be effective. G5's are in the offing, however :-)

We opted to use headphones mainly to eliminate any feedback delays that occur when the iSight mic picks up the incoming audio and sends it back out the pipes. A side effect of using headphones is that you can't hear yourself talk at normal levels- hence, you tend to shout at the other person! Pulling one phone off an ear helps.

Because we like to see each other's face when talking AND have a view of the left and right hands on the instrument, we have to sit back from the iSight quite a bit. This makes it a little difficult to view fingering details. As such, we have to move in close to the iSight when necessary. A solution might be to have two computers set up with iSights -- one trained on the hands, the other on the face -- then use the multi-user iChat version to be released with Mac OS X - codenamed "Tiger" some time next Spring (iChat under Tiger will support 4 users simultaneously). Until then, we have to do a little standup routine every time we want to zoom in on details. Not bad, though.

Audio was clear and tone quality not bad at all considering we were not operating at iChat's highest quality resolution.

Jamming is a bit of an issue due to delays. If I play a rhythm track for Troy to solo over, I just need to make sure I'm in time and not trying to adjust to his interpretation of the beat. On his end, it will sound perfect. On my end, depending on the delay, it can sound off, of course.

If I want to convey something on paper, I scribe it, then display it on the camera - or, i send a PDF via iChat text mode. When using Sibelius, I can send notation in a similar fashion.

I didn't find asking Troy to adjust hand positions to be difficult via iChat -- not much different than if a student were sitting before me. However, demonstrating fingerings is a bit more challenging due to resolution and quality. If I move directly in front of the camera and put my hands within a foot or so of the lens, then things are crisp, clear and perspective seems to be ok. I think if we were on G5's , we would get a better image and not have to resort to such physical maneuvering. (A better upload speed would also be extremely beneficial).

All in all, the lessons are effective -- material is vended, understood .. and per usual, it's up to the student to go and "do it". Most of the time, you forget you are going over IP and you carry on as though you were working in a studio.

Oh -- someone thought I might be working on a "Mac project". While it's true that I do write software using Apple's Cocoa/Objective-C dev tools (the best there is !), I'm not affiliated with Apple. I've written a developer's tool that helps with memory management ( KevinCallahan-Accessorizer ) and have a little music theory app I use with my students which drills degrees of scales.

-Kevin


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Erik
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Reged: 10/31/03
Posts: 734
Loc: Canada
Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: KevinC]
      #1138 - 08/21/04 08:43 PM

Wonderful news Kevin! Us panflutists here also have adapted iChatAV as well as AIM to teach panflute over long distances and to share experiences. It works very well and we are impressed with the technology. It truly brings people together who might not otherwise be able to. This Forum has many screenshots and coverage of this since March 2004.

Perhaps a wide-angle lens can be used on the iSight camera to solve your problem to see a person's face while also seeing the fingering on the guitar. I have seen the lens before and it works. Thought it might help here.

Although we play different instruments, the technology can be used and looking forward to share more experiences.

Great work you are doing Kevin and your site is great.

Erik Bech
Yellowknife, NWT, Canada

--------------------
May your pan flute journey be filled with passion, simple observation, and friendship.


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hptschuppAdministrator
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Reged: 07/03/03
Posts: 666
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Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: KevinC]
      #1139 - 08/22/04 08:52 AM Attachment (467 downloads)

Kevin, thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

To resolve your issue with showing the face and left hand on the fret board, there is also another approach.

A digital firewire mixer is now available, called MXProDV. With two cameras you will be able to arrange all possible picture combinations:

-picture in picture (any size you wish).
-cross dissolve and many other transitions
-superimposing with opacity/transparency of your choice
-"chroma key" to produce a foreground and background picture

The unit has 2 fire wire IN and one firwire OUT. And in addition it has 2 more ins (conventional s-video, composite etc.)The additional channels can also be switched/mixed and could be used to blend in an educational picture or movie.

Any DV firewire camera can be used. iSight works too. Synchronization of the camera is not needed since the unit corrects any syc variance during the switching respectively mixing process.

Price of the unit is around $ 2450.--. I saw a unit in e-bay for $ 1900.--.

The mixer is produced by VIDEONIX.

Here is the User Manual.

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Fred Zellweger
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Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: KevinC]
      #1140 - 08/22/04 01:44 PM

There seems to be a large number of online guitar lessons offered by many individuals or groups. But nobody was using iChat so far. I think Kevin did some real pioneer work regarding this issue and it seems to work. Congratulations!

To acquire more polish and elegance by using additional tools such as a wide angle lens, several cameras or even the firewire mixer is another advance towards a new way of educating and sending the message accross with best efficieny.

I'm really excited about all these news. "Bravo" to this forum for fostering an innovative drive.


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hptschuppAdministrator
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Posts: 666
Loc: Clearwater, FL
Re: iChat Guitar Lessons new [Re: ]
      #1141 - 08/22/04 03:14 PM

And here we go. Another person who delivers drum lessons via iChat:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, you can receive music lessons live and online. With the help of modern technology, the student can WATCH and HEAR the teacher live, on video, via the internet, in addition to text.

We use IChat with AIM (AOL Instant Messenger) for complete AV (Audio/Video) chat capabilities. However, some users may not have the latest versions allowing audio. Without audio, a music lesson is obviously affected. Yahoo Instant Messenger doesn't seem to have audio yet, only video and text chat, but we use Yahoo Instant Messenger for students if this is their only option.

More at this web page.


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